I have never fully understood -- or been certain that the community of FICO researchers fully understands -- how cards with relatively high limits are treated in the mortgage scoring models. To give an example, one will sometimes see it stated that cards with limits over $50k are disregarded for Util calculations on the mortgage scores. I know the truth is not that simple; I'm just using that common example to explain what I'm talking about. My question is, do the Powers That Be (cough... Birdman ... cough) have a solid understanding of this issue, or would some testing be helpful? I have some cards with limits in the 26k to 50k range that will be eligible for SP CLIs in the coming months. I don't need to go pedal-to-the-metal on getting higher limits, so I'm happy to do some testing by getting limits that would be informative. What are the open questions in this area? Note: I focused my question on the mortgage scores, because my impression is this feature isn't present in the newer models. If that's wrong, let me know.
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Re: Do we understand how mortgage scores deal with higher limit cards?

129 of 165
2 years ago
Mon Jun 13, 2022 4:56 pm
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Justaguy
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Justaguy wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:49 am My plan is to zero out the Citi card, then let a small balance report on the Amex, then zero out the Chase card, hopefully on a day when I have no other changes. That will raise my LLCwB from $24k to $28,500. Depending on whether the AZ penalty appears on EX2, we should learn whether the cutoff is above or below $28,500. I should have results around mid-June.
Test result: I did what I described above and I am not getting the AZ penalty on EX2. This means a card with a limit of $28,500 counts as a card for AZEO purposes on EX2. I need to think about what number to test next. Input welcome.
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Re: Do we understand how mortgage scores deal with higher limit cards?

130 of 165
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Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:33 pm
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Justaguy wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 4:56 pm
Justaguy wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:49 am My plan is to zero out the Citi card, then let a small balance report on the Amex, then zero out the Chase card, hopefully on a day when I have no other changes. That will raise my LLCwB from $24k to $28,500. Depending on whether the AZ penalty appears on EX2, we should learn whether the cutoff is above or below $28,500. I should have results around mid-June.
Test result: I did what I described above and I am not getting the AZ penalty on EX2. This means a card with a limit of $28,500 counts as a card for AZEO purposes on EX2. I need to think about what number to test next. Input welcome.
If cutoff is higher than $28,500 and lower than $30,000 try $29,001. I would like to participate in this experiment, but I lack credit cards with high credit limits; my total credit limit across all credit cards is $17,800.
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Re: Do we understand how mortgage scores deal with higher limit cards?

131 of 165
2 years ago
Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:59 pm
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Justaguy
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I think I’m limited to multiples of $100, so it would be $29,100, but yeah, that’s one reasonable option. Others are: $29,900 $29,000 $28,900 As of now, my best guess is that cards with limits greater than or equal to $30,000 are disregarded. So the way to test that would be to go for $29,900. I know we’re just speculating, but do you think it’s more likely that the underlined part should be “greater than $29,000”?
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Re: Do we understand how mortgage scores deal with higher limit cards?

132 of 165
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Mon Jun 13, 2022 8:11 pm
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My guess is $29,000 is the cutoff, so aim for the smallest number above that.
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Re: Do we understand how mortgage scores deal with higher limit cards?

133 of 165
2 years ago
Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:11 am
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It’s 50-50 either way, but my school of thought is the opposite. Everything else they do is on even numbers so I think this will be also. We saw my last speculation was incorrect. I think I was biased on that I was so sure.
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Re: Do we understand how mortgage scores deal with higher limit cards?

134 of 165
2 years ago
Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:13 am
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Birdman
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Imo they weren’t trying to hide this, they never expected anybody to be able to reverse engineer it to this level and they likely thought if it happened, it would be many years from then anyway.


They weren’t wrong 24 years later!!
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Re: Do we understand how mortgage scores deal with higher limit cards?

135 of 165
2 years ago
Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:12 am
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Justaguy
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Birdman wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:11 am It’s 50-50 either way, but my school of thought is the opposite. Everything else they do is on even numbers so I think this will be also. We saw my last speculation was incorrect. I think I was biased on that I was so sure.
Does that mean you think the best number to test next is $29,900?
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Re: Do we understand how mortgage scores deal with higher limit cards?

136 of 165
2 years ago
Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:55 pm
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Birdman
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Justaguy wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:12 am
Birdman wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:11 am It’s 50-50 either way, but my school of thought is the opposite. Everything else they do is on even numbers so I think this will be also. We saw my last speculation was incorrect. I think I was biased on that I was so sure.
Does that mean you think the best number to test next is $29,900?
Yes. Sorry for the delayed response.
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Re: Do we understand how mortgage scores deal with higher limit cards?

137 of 165
2 years ago
Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:33 pm
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Justaguy
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Birdman wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:55 pm
Justaguy wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:12 am
Birdman wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:11 am It’s 50-50 either way, but my school of thought is the opposite. Everything else they do is on even numbers so I think this will be also. We saw my last speculation was incorrect. I think I was biased on that I was so sure.
Does that mean you think the best number to test next is $29,900?
Yes. Sorry for the delayed response.
No worries! I figured that was your answer. Since that’s the number I was also leaning towards, I went for it. One of my BofA cards now has a $29,900 limit. It’s going to take me at least a month to arrange things so that’s my Lowest Limit Card with Balance.
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Re: Do we understand how mortgage scores deal with higher limit cards?

138 of 165
2 years ago
Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:38 pm
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BrutalBodyShots
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Sweet! Looking forward to hearing if it counts or not.
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Re: Do we understand how mortgage scores deal with higher limit cards?

139 of 165
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Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:09 am
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I can hardly wait I’m running an AWB/BWB test right now. I forgot to check the last two days I’m so mad at myself I missed the first on a couple profiles. Smh.
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Re: Do we understand how mortgage scores deal with higher limit cards?

140 of 165
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Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:13 am
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Justaguy
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The reported balance on the $28.5 CL card went from something to nothing this weekend. This moved my LLCwB from $28.5k to $34k. EX2 reacted by losing 13 points. It’s still over 800, so I can’t directly see reason codes, but they are visible on the industry variants and, as expected, “no recent balances on revolving and/or open-ended accounts” is in the top spot. This isn’t surprising, but it’s a confirming DP that EX2’s cutoff for cards is at or above $28.5, and it suggests the AZ penalty for my current profile is worth 13 points. I expect to have results of my test at $29.9k in about 10 days. I’m excited. That’s normal, right? 😉
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Re: Do we understand how mortgage scores deal with higher limit cards?

141 of 165
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Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:38 am
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Cassie
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Justaguy wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:13 am The reported balance on the $28.5 CL card went from something to nothing this weekend. This moved my LLCwB from $28.5k to $34k. EX2 reacted by losing 13 points. It’s still over 800, so I can’t directly see reason codes, but they are visible on the industry variants and, as expected, “no recent balances on revolving and/or open-ended accounts” is in the top spot. This isn’t surprising, but it’s a confirming DP that EX2’s cutoff for cards is at or above $28.5, and it suggests the AZ penalty for my current profile is worth 13 points. I expect to have results of my test at $29.9k in about 10 days. I’m excited. That’s normal, right? 😉
They will sing songs about you! This is AWESOME!
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Re: Do we understand how mortgage scores deal with higher limit cards?

142 of 165
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Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:36 pm
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Justaguy
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Cassie wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:38 am They will sing songs about you!
Lol! Your sense of humor is an 850.
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Re: Do we understand how mortgage scores deal with higher limit cards?

143 of 165
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Wed Jul 13, 2022 1:10 am
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BrutalBodyShots
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Justaguy wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:13 am I expect to have results of my test at $29.9k in about 10 days. I’m excited. That’s normal, right? 😉
That goes without saying!
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Re: Do we understand how mortgage scores deal with higher limit cards?

144 of 165
2 years ago
Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:12 am
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Justaguy
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Test result: Before today, my lowest limit on a card with a balance was $34,000 and I was getting the all-zero penalty on EX2. Today, my card with a limit of $29,900 reported a balance, and…

THE ALL-ZERO PENALTY DISAPPEARED!

In earlier testing, I got the all-zero penalty when my LLCwB was $30,000. (Happily, that was exactly the same card that has a $29,900 limit today, so there is no risk of this result being an artifact of FICO treating different types of cards differently.)

So there it is. The credit limit at which EX2 starts disregarding cards, for purposes of the all-zero penalty is $30k. The card one uses for AZEO should have a limit below that.

TU4 and EX5 are believed to function the same way, but their cutoffs are higher. I have tested $40k and that counts as a card in those scores. I will now turn to searching for their cutoffs.
Justaguy
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