Do we understand how mortgage scores deal with higher limit cards?

2 years ago

Mon Jun 13, 2022 4:56 pm

Justaguy

Seasoned Rebel

Justaguy has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level33 Last INQTuesday, November 16, 2021 Gardening For2 years, 9 months, 25 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes Next Level in5 days, 16 hours, and 44 minutes on September 16th INQ 1yr onWednesday, November 16, 2022 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 9 months, 25 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, November 16, 2023 INQ 2yr reached9 months, 25 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago

Justaguy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:49 am My plan is to zero out the Citi card, then let a small balance report on the Amex, then zero out the Chase card, hopefully on a day when I have no other changes. That will raise my LLCwB from $24k to $28,500. Depending on whether the AZ penalty appears on EX2, we should learn whether the cutoff is above or below $28,500. I should have results around mid-June.

Test result: I did what I described above and I am not getting the AZ penalty on EX2. This means a card with a limit of $28,500 counts as a card for AZEO purposes on EX2. I need to think about what number to test next. Input welcome.

2 years ago

Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:33 pm

Credible

Seasoned Rebel

Credible has been gardening for over 2 years.
Credible has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level29 Last INQMonday, March 28, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 5 months, 13 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes Next Level in17 days, 16 hours, and 44 minutes on September 28th INQ 1yr onTuesday, March 28, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 5 months, 13 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, March 28, 2024 INQ 2yr reached5 months, 13 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, March 28, 2024 Goal Achieved5 months, 13 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago

Justaguy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 13, 2022 4:56 pm
Justaguy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:49 am My plan is to zero out the Citi card, then let a small balance report on the Amex, then zero out the Chase card, hopefully on a day when I have no other changes. That will raise my LLCwB from $24k to $28,500. Depending on whether the AZ penalty appears on EX2, we should learn whether the cutoff is above or below $28,500. I should have results around mid-June.
Test result: I did what I described above and I am not getting the AZ penalty on EX2. This means a card with a limit of $28,500 counts as a card for AZEO purposes on EX2. I need to think about what number to test next. Input welcome.

If cutoff is higher than $28,500 and lower than $30,000 try $29,001. I would like to participate in this experiment, but I lack credit cards with high credit limits; my total credit limit across all credit cards is $17,800.

2 years ago

Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:59 pm

Justaguy

Seasoned Rebel

Justaguy has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level33 Last INQTuesday, November 16, 2021 Gardening For2 years, 9 months, 25 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes Next Level in5 days, 16 hours, and 44 minutes on September 16th INQ 1yr onWednesday, November 16, 2022 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 9 months, 25 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, November 16, 2023 INQ 2yr reached9 months, 25 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago

I think I’m limited to multiples of $100, so it would be $29,100, but yeah, that’s one reasonable option. Others are: $29,900 $29,000 $28,900 As of now, my best guess is that cards with limits greater than or equal to $30,000 are disregarded. So the way to test that would be to go for $29,900. I know we’re just speculating, but do you think it’s more likely that the underlined part should be “greater than $29,000”?

2 years ago

Mon Jun 13, 2022 8:11 pm

Credible

Seasoned Rebel

Credible has been gardening for over 2 years.
Credible has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level29 Last INQMonday, March 28, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 5 months, 13 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes Next Level in17 days, 16 hours, and 44 minutes on September 28th INQ 1yr onTuesday, March 28, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 5 months, 13 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, March 28, 2024 INQ 2yr reached5 months, 13 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, March 28, 2024 Goal Achieved5 months, 13 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago

My guess is $29,000 is the cutoff, so aim for the smallest number above that.

2 years ago

Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:11 am

Birdman

Primer AuthorCo-Founder

Birdman has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level30 Last INQWednesday, March 2, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 6 months, 8 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes Next Level in21 days, 16 hours, and 44 minutes on October 2nd INQ 1yr onThursday, March 2, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 6 months, 8 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, March 2, 2024 INQ 2yr reached6 months, 8 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago

It’s 50-50 either way, but my school of thought is the opposite. Everything else they do is on even numbers so I think this will be also. We saw my last speculation was incorrect. I think I was biased on that I was so sure.

2 years ago

Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:13 am

Birdman

Primer AuthorCo-Founder

Birdman has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level30 Last INQWednesday, March 2, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 6 months, 8 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes Next Level in21 days, 16 hours, and 44 minutes on October 2nd INQ 1yr onThursday, March 2, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 6 months, 8 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, March 2, 2024 INQ 2yr reached6 months, 8 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago

Imo they weren’t trying to hide this, they never expected anybody to be able to reverse engineer it to this level and they likely thought if it happened, it would be many years from then anyway.

They weren’t wrong 24 years later!!

2 years ago

Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:12 am

Justaguy

Seasoned Rebel

Justaguy has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level33 Last INQTuesday, November 16, 2021 Gardening For2 years, 9 months, 25 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes Next Level in5 days, 16 hours, and 44 minutes on September 16th INQ 1yr onWednesday, November 16, 2022 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 9 months, 25 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, November 16, 2023 INQ 2yr reached9 months, 25 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago

Birdman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:11 am It’s 50-50 either way, but my school of thought is the opposite. Everything else they do is on even numbers so I think this will be also. We saw my last speculation was incorrect. I think I was biased on that I was so sure.

Does that mean you think the best number to test next is $29,900?

2 years ago

Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:55 pm

Birdman

Primer AuthorCo-Founder

Birdman has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level30 Last INQWednesday, March 2, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 6 months, 8 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes Next Level in21 days, 16 hours, and 44 minutes on October 2nd INQ 1yr onThursday, March 2, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 6 months, 8 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, March 2, 2024 INQ 2yr reached6 months, 8 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago

Justaguy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:12 am
Birdman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:11 am It’s 50-50 either way, but my school of thought is the opposite. Everything else they do is on even numbers so I think this will be also. We saw my last speculation was incorrect. I think I was biased on that I was so sure.
Does that mean you think the best number to test next is $29,900?

Yes. Sorry for the delayed response.

2 years ago

Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:33 pm

Justaguy

Seasoned Rebel

Justaguy has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level33 Last INQTuesday, November 16, 2021 Gardening For2 years, 9 months, 25 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes Next Level in5 days, 16 hours, and 44 minutes on September 16th INQ 1yr onWednesday, November 16, 2022 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 9 months, 25 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, November 16, 2023 INQ 2yr reached9 months, 25 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago

Birdman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:55 pm
Justaguy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:12 am
Birdman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:11 am It’s 50-50 either way, but my school of thought is the opposite. Everything else they do is on even numbers so I think this will be also. We saw my last speculation was incorrect. I think I was biased on that I was so sure.
Does that mean you think the best number to test next is $29,900?
Yes. Sorry for the delayed response.

No worries! I figured that was your answer. Since that’s the number I was also leaning towards, I went for it. One of my BofA cards now has a $29,900 limit. It’s going to take me at least a month to arrange things so that’s my Lowest Limit Card with Balance.

2 years ago

Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:38 pm

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 18 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes Next Level in12 days, 16 hours, and 44 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 18 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 18 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 18 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago

Sweet! Looking forward to hearing if it counts or not.

2 years ago

Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:09 am

Birdman

Primer AuthorCo-Founder

Birdman has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level30 Last INQWednesday, March 2, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 6 months, 8 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes Next Level in21 days, 16 hours, and 44 minutes on October 2nd INQ 1yr onThursday, March 2, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 6 months, 8 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago INQ 2yr onSaturday, March 2, 2024 INQ 2yr reached6 months, 8 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago

I can hardly wait I’m running an AWB/BWB test right now. I forgot to check the last two days I’m so mad at myself I missed the first on a couple profiles. Smh.

2 years ago

Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:13 am

Justaguy

Seasoned Rebel

Justaguy has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level33 Last INQTuesday, November 16, 2021 Gardening For2 years, 9 months, 25 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes Next Level in5 days, 16 hours, and 44 minutes on September 16th INQ 1yr onWednesday, November 16, 2022 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 9 months, 25 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, November 16, 2023 INQ 2yr reached9 months, 25 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago

The reported balance on the $28.5 CL card went from something to nothing this weekend. This moved my LLCwB from $28.5k to $34k. EX2 reacted by losing 13 points. It’s still over 800, so I can’t directly see reason codes, but they are visible on the industry variants and, as expected, “no recent balances on revolving and/or open-ended accounts” is in the top spot. This isn’t surprising, but it’s a confirming DP that EX2’s cutoff for cards is at or above $28.5, and it suggests the AZ penalty for my current profile is worth 13 points. I expect to have results of my test at $29.9k in about 10 days. I’m excited. That’s normal, right?

2 years ago

Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:38 am

Cassie

DeveloperLoves long talks on the beach

Cassie has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level54 Last INQFriday, February 14, 2020 Gardening For4 years, 6 months, 27 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes Next Level in3 days, 16 hours, and 44 minutes on September 14th INQ 1yr onSunday, February 14, 2021 INQ 1yr reached3 years, 6 months, 27 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago INQ 2yr onMonday, February 14, 2022 INQ 2yr reached2 years, 6 months, 27 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago

Justaguy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:13 am The reported balance on the $28.5 CL card went from something to nothing this weekend. This moved my LLCwB from $28.5k to $34k. EX2 reacted by losing 13 points. It’s still over 800, so I can’t directly see reason codes, but they are visible on the industry variants and, as expected, “no recent balances on revolving and/or open-ended accounts” is in the top spot. This isn’t surprising, but it’s a confirming DP that EX2’s cutoff for cards is at or above $28.5, and it suggests the AZ penalty for my current profile is worth 13 points. I expect to have results of my test at $29.9k in about 10 days. I’m excited. That’s normal, right?

They will sing songs about you! This is AWESOME!

2 years ago

Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:36 pm

Justaguy

Seasoned Rebel

Justaguy has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level33 Last INQTuesday, November 16, 2021 Gardening For2 years, 9 months, 25 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes Next Level in5 days, 16 hours, and 44 minutes on September 16th INQ 1yr onWednesday, November 16, 2022 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 9 months, 25 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, November 16, 2023 INQ 2yr reached9 months, 25 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago

Cassie wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:38 am They will sing songs about you!

Lol! Your sense of humor is an 850.

2 years ago

Wed Jul 13, 2022 1:10 am

BrutalBodyShots

Senior AdministratorGoodwill Saturation Technique Author

BrutalBodyShots has been gardening for over 2 years.
BrutalBodyShots has achieved the Garden Goal !!

Level27 Last INQMonday, May 23, 2022 Gardening For2 years, 3 months, 18 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes Next Level in12 days, 16 hours, and 44 minutes on September 23rd INQ 1yr onTuesday, May 23, 2023 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 3 months, 18 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, May 23, 2024 INQ 2yr reached3 months, 18 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago Goal24 months Goal DateThursday, May 23, 2024 Goal Achieved3 months, 18 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago

Justaguy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:13 am I expect to have results of my test at $29.9k in about 10 days. I’m excited. That’s normal, right?

That goes without saying!

2 years ago

Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:12 am

Justaguy

Seasoned Rebel

Justaguy has been gardening for over 2 years.

Level33 Last INQTuesday, November 16, 2021 Gardening For2 years, 9 months, 25 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes Next Level in5 days, 16 hours, and 44 minutes on September 16th INQ 1yr onWednesday, November 16, 2022 INQ 1yr reached1 year, 9 months, 25 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago INQ 2yr onThursday, November 16, 2023 INQ 2yr reached9 months, 25 days, 7 hours, and 16 minutes ago

Test result: Before today, my lowest limit on a card with a balance was $34,000 and I was getting the all-zero penalty on EX2. Today, my card with a limit of $29,900 reported a balance, and…

THE ALL-ZERO PENALTY DISAPPEARED!

In earlier testing, I got the all-zero penalty when my LLCwB was $30,000. (Happily, that was exactly the same card that has a $29,900 limit today, so there is no risk of this result being an artifact of FICO treating different types of cards differently.)

So there it is. The credit limit at which EX2 starts disregarding cards, for purposes of the all-zero penalty is $30k. The card one uses for AZEO should have a limit below that.

TU4 and EX5 are believed to function the same way, but their cutoffs are higher. I have tested $40k and that counts as a card in those scores. I will now turn to searching for their cutoffs.